The crux of my post on "Chassidism" is not Judaism", is entirely different than your well-intended interpretation of those words. I did not certainly mean to imply, as you seem to infer, that Chassidim are not Jews. I certainly did not say that Kabbalists are not Jews.

DE responds: We have a great task before us, to rectify certain serious shortcomings in our community. Will we sit and quibble as if we had all of the time in the world? The issue is not one of semantics. The issue is one of anger. Anger, rooted in righteousness and holy indignation must be channeled properly lest we bog down in pilpulim.

However, I will accept your statement here "mipnei hakovod" and reply to it. You wrote

 "Make no mistake, Chassidism is not part of authentic Judaism." Also, that since Kabbala was not at Sinai,  this would "eliminate the Zohar or Kabbalah from effectively being part of Judaism." What you meant may be "entirely different" from the way I understood these words. But  indignation inspired terms that deny authenticity to Kabbala and Hassidim.

Someone once told me that he felt outside of Torah because nobody appreciated what he did, despite the fact that he was a Talmid Chochom and had many talmidim.  I told him, "Who says that they have the Torah? Maybe their Torah is an invention and you have the true Torah?" This made him feel better, and he mentions it to me frequently.

We have rocks to fling, but let's fling it at those culpable, those who don't keep the Torah. Let's not create a snake house for the hypocrites to retreat to. What goes on today is the OPPOSITE OF TORAH.

At my son's wedding I spent half an hour telling a gadol hador my complaints about Yeshivas, and he seemed in agreement, because he only objected to something I said once. And once he nodded affirmation. At the end I told him I was going to write a sefer attacking the Yeshivas. Of course, if he would have protested I would not do it, but he was silent.

Once I went to a gadole of the past generation and complained that in Monsey there was a video store on main street, something that had never happened. The Gadole refused to listen to me, and when I pestered him, saying "rebbe, hashchoso," he turned to me with great emotion and said, "A Yeshiva is haschoso." He explained that because the Yeshiva only wants top boys it destroys everyone else.

After the Holocaust a mindset was created to save the Torah, no matter what. This mindset has destroyed the Torah and a lot of innocent young people.

But the facts actually speak for themselves. The "Zohar" was not an evolutionary work that began with Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai as the "Ari" claimed it was. Of course there are references in the Talmud to kaballah, spirituality, mystical happenings, and aggadata, or stories that were passed down through the ages, I have not said otherwise.

But I am looking for Mesorah, actual references to "Kaballah /Zohar" as a body of work that was incorporated into Judaism at the time of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, and there are none.

What we call today Chassidim, are by definition followers of the Besht or Baal Shem Tov. His teachings, perhaps, had purpose at the time. It was able to bring into his sphere of influence a simplified, watered-down Judaism, for "simple" Jews, that were incapable of grasping the learnings of the Talmud. That, I'm certain, was a good thing, supposing that it did not conflict with true Torah values. Serving God by singing was in fact something new to Judaism at that time. I do not have a problem with that form of prayer, provided it also included the traditional prayers of the Jews that were formulated after the destruction of our Bais Hamikdash, by Chazal.

DE responds: Out of Derech Erets I will respond to this, although I think we should be talking about the very structure of our society and its culture and why it lacks what our ancestors have taught from Sinai.

Today all major groups of Orthodoxy accept Kabbala and the Zohar as the teaching of Rashbi. The Vilna Gaon was a major Kabbalist, and his disciples accepted the Zohar. There was no difference between the Vilna Gaon's attitude towards Zohar and the Baal Shem Tov. Also, the war of the Vilna Gaon was against Chabad. Interestingly, the greatest opposition to Chabad came from Chassidim. At one time senior Chassidim came to the shull of the Baal HaTanyo and cursed him publicly. Out of deference to them, as they were older than him, he then walked with them to their carriage. It is known that the Besht's grandson Reb Baruch had a furious battle with the founder of Chabad. So we must demarcate between Chabad and its issues and general Hassiduce. On his deathbed, the Magid told the Baal HaTanyo that he would have much opposition but that the Magid would support him from the other world.

I have no doubt that the great Rav Ahron Kotler embraced many Chassidic Rebbes. Are you therefore implying that because of an embrace out of ahavas Yisroel, his love for a fellow Jew, that implied he endorsed their philosophies? How would you respond to a photo of Rav Ahron Kotler embracing the great gaon Rabbi Joseph B. Solovetchick? Would you therefore claim he endorsed his great thoughts, philosophies and writings?

DE replies: Every person and every gadole has a unique soul and a unique understanding of Torah. Many rabbis seriously dispute opinions of other rabbis, but respect must follow the disagreement. Reb Aharon worked with Rav Soloveitchik to build Torah Umesorah, and Lakewood would probably not be what it is without the backing of Lakewood from the RCA after Reb Aharon died. This was because of Rav Soloveitchik. Yes, there were differences, but so what?

After giving a shiur in Tanya, the writings of the Lubavitch Rebbe referred to as the Baal Hatanya, the saintly Rav Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the founder of Yeshiva Torah Vodaath and Torah Umesorah, was asked by a student; "Rebbe, are you a Lubavitch Chasid"(a follower of the Lubavitch movement), his answer was clear and precise , "I am a chasid of the Ribono Shel Olam". (a follower of Hashem)

We need to remember that once we start including additional works of rabbis into our Canon, or the original Torah that was given to us at Sinai, where and when does it end? Would you then claim the works and the writings of the Rambam as significant as the Prophets? How then would you explain that many of the Rambam's writings were burned, and he was excommunicated by many contemporary rabbis for being a heretic?

DE responds: The Anshey Knesses HaGedolah prepared the Written Torah and hundreds of years later Reb Yehuda HaNosi prepared the Oral Torah and Mishneh. He then sealed the era so nobody can argue with a Tano. A few centuries later the gemora was sealed. Of course, nobody can create a new book of the Written Torah today and nobody can add a book with the stature of the Talmud. Rambam's works were burned because he dealt in philosophy and Aristotle which other rabbis considered a threat. Later those who burned his works repented and his honor was restored. This happened after the Talmuds in France were burned, taken as a punishment for burning Rambam's books. Rabbeinu Yona, who led the fight to burn Rambam's books, then undertook penitence and wrote Shaarei Teshuva.

Would you also then claim dear Rabbi, that the works of the great gaon Rabbi Moshe Feinstein to be as significant in terms of being able to dispute them, as the Shulcan Aruch? ( The body of law written by R' Yosef Caro accepted by Orthodox Jews as the embodiment of the Torah law)

So there is a huge difference in what is "authentic, original Sinai Judaism" and the add-ons that came later for whatever certain rabbis may have deemed worthwhile at the time.

That leads me to another favorite saying of mine. "There are happenings, doings/actions, successes by people that are timely, and than there are the ones that are timeless!"

What the great Rabbi Kotler did for Judaism after the war was "timely", what the saintly Rabbi Mendlowitz did for American Judaism was "timeless".

The era of recruiting every single male into a lifetime of Torah study is over. It was perhaps desperately needed post-war for twenty years or so, perhaps, but certainly that is an idea that is now devastating Jews.

Time to bury it quickly before the damage becomes irreparable!

The original intent of kollel was for the select precious few that were able to carry forth the Torah to our next generation with the utmost integrity. Kollel is for our select few mitzuyonim or excellent students. Excellence in mind, in middos, and character, with purity of heart and soul. Those people only deserve our communal support, not the other 95% with average, at best, abilities, or for most, just a place to hang out after the wedding.

DE responds: I think that Lakewood came into being because of Reb Shraga Feival to a large degree. He sent his best students to Lakewood. Reb Aharon himself established two school systems in Israel, Chinuch Hoatsmoi and Tashbar. He held that gedolim would come from Tashbar but that mainstream Jews needed Chinuch Hoatsmoi. Reb Aharon had to raise money for both systems. Kollel today is a curse and if the heads of Lakewood could get rid of the majority of the people there they would make kiddush. But they can't. The fact is, that your opinions are not yours, but that of many decent people. But nobody can get up and tell someone to leave Kollel because that means he is not "the best" and could destroy his marriage.

The solution is to make a Kollel for the very few, and a kollel for others whereby they learn to earn while they learn. Every yungerman should earn and train for parnoso even while in Kollel. Even top boys might prefer such a system because Rambam, Rabbeinu Yona and Rashi hold that if you take a kollel check  you are a rosho. I go around and speak about these issues, and so far I am making certain audiences happy and hopeful, but the key is to get action, to get dedicated people involved. Only then can something be done. I wrote a sefer called Torah and Parnoso, where I bring all of the shitose about learning and earning. It completely debunks the false teachings that encourage young people to only learn and not work.

What Rabbi Mendlowitz did for American Judaism is "timeless"! A day school in every major American city was his dream that was fullfilled under the leadership of one very great man, the college educated, Dr. Joseph Kaminetsky. ..

The great visionary Rabbi Mendlowitz strongly felt that Judaism in America can not survive without ample parnassah; was as "timeless" when he lived , as it is today, and will be until the end of time. Make no mistake about it, had he lived longer, there would have been a full-fledged state chartered yeshiva college and a trade school under the auspices of Yeshiva Torah Vodaath. Prior to his untimely death, Rav Hutner, at his behest, had handled the application and approval process. This is not story, this is verifiable fact.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE THAT SAYS OTHERWISE!

Each child would have been educated and put on a learning path for their individual needs and abilities. There would not have been mass herding of children into educational programs that were unsuited for them. He worked for God, his business was owned by God, and every breathing second of his short life was dedicated to benefit Klal Yisroel and Hashem. He did NOT leave Torah Vodaath to his progeny; there were more qualified people to lead the yeshiva. THIS WAS HASHEM'S YESHIVA, and he was only God's clerk!

What is very telling is what you chose not to disagree with. The Christian concepts of the Rebbe as an intemediary between Jews and God; and Gedolim infallibilty as an integral part of our Mesorah, is something I would want to hear your opinion on.

The evidence however is clear. The Rebbes and "infallible" Rabbis are comitting crimes under the guise of Mesorah. According to them, "one must never question their behavior or decisions, period, leave your brains at the door"! That is something that must never be tolerated under any circumstances. We do not live under the Czars, the Romans, and other hostile governing powers that we must be concerned that ALL of our affairs, whether we know what we're doing or not, must be totally controlled by rabbis. This is what killed hundreds of thousands of Jews, perhaps millions, since we became a People, and came really close to destroying all of Judaism.

DE I know of cases where chassidim did not listen to their rebbes. One rebbe I know told his dayan, "They know I don't approve so why do they do it?" This is common. Hassiduse is an interesting issue and for those outside of it we may imagine the worst, but I did not see the worst. Rebbe are surely not considered to be infallible. They are sources of spiritual energy and guidance, but are no more than that. When the Satmar Rebbe left Israel he told his distraught followers, "If you have no rebbe, go to shull and watch Jews put on tephilin. If someone has markings on his arm (from the camps) go to him for a brocho."

Rather than argue among ourselves, we must restore the Torah.

Shalom uvrocho,

Dovid Eidensohn